I thought this was a very interesting article by Glenn and I think it warrants a post of its own.
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A long post I know but I just got back from the First National Conference at the Hyatt Coolum resort on the Sunshine Coast.
Before I get on to the interesting bits, I must say that our network is getting a lot of things right these days. That had to be the best conference I have been to. It was full of energy, excitement and promise.
One of the speakers at the conference was Andrew Taylor, Realestate.com.au’s Industry Business Development Manager who’ session was titled, the future of the internet. Andrew is a self professed expert on our industry, but to be fair I think he means as far as internet marketing goes. I found Andrew’s talk generally very interesting, not just for what it contained, but for what was left out.
True to form, Andrew opened with the BIG REA ad, detailing all of the businesses, websites and listing their dreams of global domination. To be expected I suppose..
Andrew provided a list of what he thinks will feature on future estate sites in Australia over the next year or so. All of his suggestions were selected for shock value and as you would expect he followed up with the “These are all in place right now somewhere in the world.” The type of things raised were allowing vendors to add text and details to their properties marketing, allowing web visitors to comment on properties , agents and suburbs. Nothing shocking here, but I doubt any of this will reach the mainstream anytime soon, nor did Andrew advise that realestate.com.au was looking at any of these points.
Andrew also covered what he thought was the future for technology outside the real estate sphere which covered things like better internet and technology in the mobile platforms. I found one of his prediction quite interesting. Andrew forsees a time when you can send searches, maps and routes from your computer to your sat nav in your car. Very Interesting prediction however I just could not help myself and had to point out this was already a reality and is available in Europe with BMW and Google.
So what does Realestate.com.au see as their main threats in the near future… Wait for it… Andrew actually advised that realestate.com.au is “nervous” about Truelocal! Apparently the combination of News and Google has the potential to rival realestate.com.au. Now I don’t understand where these two companies combined forces on a product. Google used Truelocal’s business directory to populate their business section of Google Maps. Thats it as far as I knew! Andrew went on to describe how consumers could be looking for a hairdresser but might stumble upon a property listing and how powerful that could be. Honestly, I think Truelocal has a long way to go to be any kind of force.
That was the only mention of Google in his talk about future competition. As far as Andrew is concerned Google does not pose a threat on its own, only as threat because of their google maps integration with Truelocal. I don’t know if they are just ignorant or that naming Truelocal as a threat rather than Google is part of a plan to be seen as unassailable.
Thankfully his session had a lot of good stuff as well. Andrew provided stacks of statistics, but one of the most interesting one was that 32% of all unique browsers visit the sold area of realestate.com.au. I never would have dreamed that the numbers to the sold properties would be that high.
Apparently there is two portal start-ups ready to launch that will feature a recommendation engine as part of the rollout. A recommendation engine works on the basis of providing other recommended listings to view such as “previous visitors who viewed this property also viewed the following three properties”. Amazon is one of the most famous successes of a successful implementation of a recommendation engine along with ebay.
Andrew showed us the new integration of video into the realestate.com.au property pages. Basically the video replaces the main image with very small video controls underneath. I think they need to tweak this as many visitors will not realise that this is a video but think it is a normal photo image.
Andrew also advised that realestate.com.au was also looking at video and audio on major suburbs around Australia. He also admitted that the relaunch of property.com.au was based around testing how a Trulia concept would work in Australia and so far the test has proved positive. He seemed to gain pleasure in recalling the history of Trulia and how they rejected a buyout by Google .
Andrew also glossed over the Weichert Lead Network. I personally think that has more relevance to future of out industry. I first head about the lead network from Shaun, realestate.com.au GM in another presentation where a lot more importance was placed on it. More info here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtj2m4lsh_g
I had another interesting occurrence at the conference involving realestate.com.au. Whilst discussing a number of things with one of their reps she asked me about their brochure product and their feature all product. I responded advising her I would never be interested in feature all as I could not support a product that if everybody in a suburb took up we would all be back on an equal footing and realestate.com.au would be making a fortune however as the brochure product was adding something new that I was interested in looking at it further. Another attendee talking with a different rep piped up and agreed with my position and thats when things went a little crazy. The other realestate.com.au rep decided to take the comment as an attack on him personally although I have no idea why as he was not even involved in our discussion. Basically he just rudely interrupted. The display was so unprofessional and seemed to have left his colleagues dumbfounded as he went off. He actually got very aggressive and I love a debate as much as the next person but because of his aggro I could not stop laughing and I don’t think that made it any better. I honestly could not believe that a representative of any company their to push their product on attendees would act in that sort of manner.
Now this is where it got interesting… During his rants he made the statement that consumers wanted the default sort order by date. I asked how he knew this and he said that realestate.com.au surveys their visitors and agents and he has the statistics to back it up. When I asked for those statistics he went into back peddle mode. He said that to get the stats I have to go to one of their seminars. I asked him what other portal had a default order by date on searches rather than price. He didn’t know any of course. I told him I thought the only reason that realestate.com.au used the date order as the default sort was so they could sell products like feature products and feature all products. His response was that I might just learn something if I go to one of their seminars. I kept asking for the stats and finally got his commitment to send them to me after finally asking if he would not have quoted me statistics if they didnt exist would he ? So apparently they are on their way. Has anybody seen an REA survey to an agent or a visitor even asking what their preferred default sort method would be? If I get the info I will be sure to post it. Do I hold my breath do you think?
36 Comments
Peter
Fantastic Post Glenn
I am sure REA will speak to the one rep. As for Google I am sure they see them as a threat but very rarely any companies ‘talk up’ there competition. I can see REA listings plotted on mapping in cars and eventually getting feedback. I also think mobile devices have a future, but only when access charges come back to where they should be at around $30 per month unlimited and I think this is a fair way off.
REA will have some great initiatives coming and feedback for properties in real estate is coming soon as well as an owners perspective on their properties for sale.
I think the next 12 months will see REA strengthen their position with a new website ( more consumer focussed) and more acquisitions to add to their position.
Great insight though.
snoop
Gotta admire the REA spin machine.
Just following Zillow really arent they.
Dave Platter
Glenn (and Peter), thanks for the post.
I’m glad you brought to our attention what sounds like very bad behavior of that unnamed person. What you described is certainly not how we expect our people to behave. We’ll look into it and take whatever actions are necessary.
On a happier note, I’m glad you found so much of interest in Andrew’s presentation. I have to say I’m a little jealous, as I haven’t seen it yet. I’ll see if I can get him to present it to me the next time I’m in Melbourne….
As for video, every time you mention it, I get excited. I’ve said before I’m a big believer. Not everyone can spend a week filming their property, but a short video feature can really help sell a property by sinking an emotional hook into the viewer that I don’t think photos provide.
While I was working in NY, I saw it happen. The agent sent one email with a video link to likely buyers about a Park Ave apartment, which I think was worth around $11 million. The next day, a UK financial executive got on a plane from London to check it out in person.
Strangely, some agents still prefer to send the videos as DVDs in snail mail, rather than use email/the web.
dave
Glenn
Glad you liked it Peter.. Of course now you elevated it from a comment to a post on its own I wish I had taken the time to check the Grammar and spelling a little better. 🙂
Dave Platter
Thanks for the post Glenn (and Peter).
And Glenn, thanks for that info on what sounds like bad behaviour from that unnamed staff member. The attitude you described isn’t how we expect our people to act. The appropriate people will look into it and take whatever actions are warranted.
Now, anytime someone mentions real estate videos, I get excited. While I was working in NY, I saw their power. An agent selling an US$11 million apartment on Park Avenue sent out an email to his database with a link to a video. The next day a hot prospect in London got on a plane to come to NY to check the place out in person.
I’ve also seen some enterprising agents in the Sydney area use video. Helene Taylor is one (Ray White Manly). Not only does she place her videos on our site, she gets more return on her investment by also playing them in the giant flat panel TV screen at a popular Manly coffee shop.
dave
Peter
Dave, well I think that was the only negative out of all of it, it seemed like a pretty good seminar.
As for videos, I think as far back as 2004 I mentioned that they will far surpass virtual tours, which I think are on the whole pretty bad. Some people do them well but there are just too many problems with them.
Videos on the other hand, can be played by just about everyone (MP4,WMV) on any PC or Mac.
I have seen some great ones so far and this is only going to get better.
Glenn
Dave,
I dont think he was trying to be aggressive on purpose, its probably because it was a subject he was passionate about he came across badly. To a certain point I respect his passion and I definitely respect his right to have a different opinion, I just found his execution of it poor.
As you know yourself, I like to have the statistics to interpret myself and hopefully somebody from realestate.com.au can send them through so I can share them here.
In contrast the rest of the staff there were exceptional including Andrew and his presentation.
adam
I have asked a lot of ‘users’ about how they look at property in a portal.
Firstly they like to see them arranged by latest listing first, for at least the first 2 pages of results. This allows them to see if anything new has come onto the market (as MOST never bother to setup the email alerts). Then, most of them sort by price when they go back and start researching again. This comes from asking over 200 net savvy buyers in the last few months.
In our area, the whole experience is disrupted by 3 pages of ‘platinum membership’ agents all putting old listings to the top to please their vendors and do nothing for the marketplace. This is the biggest whinge from buyers. We monitor their sentiments pretty strongly.
Most agents, simply want it sorted by latest listing, so they can data mine and go hit those homes with marketing material for listings. I wonder how many of our properties ‘hits’ are actually agents looking for listings ? I know our own agents hit the portals pretty hard looking for them.
Cheers
snoop
Very interesting comment Adam.
I think the balance between a quality User Experience and commercial imperatives is something REA is probably losing the battle on.
Glenn
I have swapped a couple of emails with Andrew Taylor over the past few days. One of the things he raised and wanted to make clear with me is that Google is a “personal hobby strategy” of his but in his presentations he likes to stick to issues that people can go away and look at and its important to note that Andrew did follow up all attendees with links and further information.
So Google appears to be on Andrew’s radar but he still considers Truelocal as a site to benchmark against and I guess on that we will continue to disagree.
Some other snippets that Andrew has advised is that REA has looked at the buyer/seller feedback on listings and it may be tested on focus groups and on the property.com.au website before it was considered for realestate.com.au. Andrew advised that new additions for property.com.au are being done at the moment from user feedback and should be released in a month or so.. no further details though.
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Still no statistics provided by any REA stuff to confirm that visitors to the site prefer a default sort order by date. Hopefully this does not turn into another unsupported statement by an REA staff member. I would hate to defer to Mark Twain who is often attributed as saying “There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.”
Dave Platter
Glenn, have you got the card of the person you spoke to about the listings sort order issue?
If so, you should contact that person and ask for the research you two discussed. I’m not sure why you’re pursuing it here, when you can contact the person directly. What if he (no offence, Peter) doesn’t read this blog?
If you don’t have that person’s info, email me at dplatter at realestate.com.au or call me at 02 8323 4540 and I’ll help you reach the person.
dave
Glenn
Dave,
huh? I am not pursuing it here. Did I ask you to provide the information at any stage? I did not even ask Andrew Taylor to provide that information during our emails. I am waiting for what ever his name is to provide it. If he fails to get it to me you can count on me to escalate here, there or wherever I feel it appropriate. You could always say “No” or just ignore it and hope the issue will be forgotten again. Why are you so worried about it?? If that information is as easy to get as he and Renee have both said maybe you would like to provide it then?
I simply advised that I still had not received the information. For the record since you raised it I did not get a card, or his name… The person I was talking to when he interrupted us was Renee and he was going to get my contact details from her to send me this information.
I did raise it again with Renee about it on Monday when Carly and herself visited the office and she assured me that he would be getting it to me like he promised.
Dave Platter
Glenn, since you haven’t got his info, I’ll notify him for you. I think he actually is travelling this week, but perhaps he can call you from the road.
Be well.
dave
Glenn
Call me, email me at glenn (at) nfn.com.au or post the results here.
Dave Platter
Peter, I think the guy that Glenn spoke to at the conference reached out to Glenn today. He had been traveling. (Glenn, if he hasn’t, I’ll remind him for you.)
He also shared with me the info he put together for Glenn. I thought your readers might like to see it, as well.
We do quite a bit of usability testing and in none of it have users highlighted the default sort ordering as an issue. Again, they have not said it is a big issue.
Here
Paul Kravyen
This is eactly why we need a new method of layout. With switches for most recent and or new only etc. Lists are everywhere and old and unfortunately a list is ordered. What we need is some inovation in the way listings are displayed. Maps? mmm maybe maybe not.
Glenn
Dave,
Nice spin mate… a cursory read and you would think that you provided the stats that were offered. Darren did ring and he gave me virtually word for word what you have posted.
My reply to you is no different than what I said to him and that is the response provided was not what was offered and that was survey results to show that “consumers” wanted the default sort order by date.
That was in no way provided and instead we are given:-
1/ Nobody has complained about it therefore that must be proof.
2/ At least two AGENTS who responded (out of how many hundreds or thousands) to an agents survey believe that default sorting by price is preferred but you could not find one example from a consumer that has been provided
3/ Even the agents who use the commercial site does not have a preference towards date sort order despite being a different market. Again, where is the consumers opinion?
Darren advised that he has had lots of people mention to him that they prefer the default date order. That is clearly anecdotal evidence and is not what he said he had available and that he would provide. As I told him, my experiences talking with agents and consumers is exactly the opposite. They want to be notified of new listings through email alert notices (which that statistics show the masses are signing up for) but when they visit the site they want listings displayed in price order so they get to see everything in their price range.
Darren asked how I could reasonably come to that conclusion, and this is how :-
1/ The vast majority of major and leading portals around the world have a default sort order by price.
2/ Virtually all of the portals in the Australian market place order by price.
3/ My personal experience with the portals as a consumer and as an agent as well as being in the industry and discussing it with colleagues, clients and customers for longer than realestate.com.au has been in existence.
4/ And best of all… REA themselves agree! In a market place where they are not the number 1 portal, the REA website has a default search order of… PRICE! http://www.propertyfinder.co.uk is currently in the REA stable and is the number 2 property portal in the UK is it not? In trying to become number one they are trying their hardest to attract consumers. Yet how are they doing this ??? by sorting the properties by PRICE. Don’t worry it stumped Darren as well.
In Australia where realestate.com.au have a majority market share your opinions conveniently change, which again, conveniently allows you to promote “upgrade” products like feature properties, feature all, and guaranteed top spot that all rely heavily on the default sort order of price. If the default order was changed to price the benefit, and thus the saleability of these products would dramatically reduce.
Dave, I never really knew your position with REA but I had guessed in the marketing department. Darren confirmed it is in PR. Now you have a job to do like all of us and no doubt the openness of the internet plays havoc with your role.
Your obvious attempts to “manage” topics involving REA may not be as transparent to all but I promise if you or anyone at REA or anybody else for that matter boasts of statistics I will openly ask for them.
That’s twice now in recent times that REA has failed to provide information to support claims when they said they had the information and would provide it. At least this time something was offered because last time a month or so ago it was you who said you would provide the information yet you constantly ignored follow-up posts probably in the hope that it to would go away only to post eventually that the stats to support your claim was not available.
IMHO you would do better with less spin, less ducking and weaving, more facts, more openness and more feedback. What was acceptable and worked years ago is not quite so easy anymore…
Sam
“IMHO you would do better with less spin, less ducking and weaving,” But that’s Dave’s job description isn’t it ?
Read an investment report about REA, very interesting.
Said how clever they were at fostering competition between agents and how well the model works.
Also highlighted how vulnerable they are to changes in the market, for instance if News Ltd pulled out , supported someone else or started their own REA would be stuffed.
Investment recommendation ? AVOID.
Sam
added – fostering competition between agents means they all pay more to beat each other, platinum level etc. Really means they play the agents for suckers, sad but true.
Elizabeth
Good morning,
This is all rather interesting. Perhaps Glenn you should work for realestate in their research department?
I may have this all wrong, however Glenn
Tom S
“Investment recommendation ? AVOID.”
That’s strange. In the Portfolio section of the Fin Review this morning there was a section regarding investing in the media sector. Compared to traditional media (Fairfax, PBL, WAN, etc), the “new media plays such as realestate.com.au represent the sector’s next wave for media investment”
Don’t give up you day job Sam to become an investment adviser.
Sam
Hi Tom,
What makes you think Fairfax (Fin Review) knows anything about the new media. Their Domain site is so far behind REA it’s an embarrassment when they should be in the lead, after all they had the advantage of almost every major newspaper in Australia to help them along. Thge recommendation for Fairfax is also SELL as they don’t seem to be able to grasp new media and are putting more into print -ie purchasing Rural Press.
REA is a great business but the price is way too high compared to other stocks and they are far too vulnerable in a market place where a new competitor can come along any minute and hurt them badly.
From the report as follows –
The wrecking ball
Looking at the other side, what could bring the company unstuck?
Both website visitors and real estate agents are seeking the best possible online experience. In an industry where technological barriers to entry are low, REA must offer superior data speed, capacity and security, all at an attractive price for subscribers. And, most importantly, it needs to provide an environment where agents
Sam
I also notice they include PBL in their lineup of great new media gurus – ever heard of MyHome ? what a masterpiece of new media that is.
Robert Simeon
Still here – just that I have been working on some new projects that are somewhat time consuming. I still have been reading every post with interest.
With regard to REA and Domain I believe that on every online listing the date the property first appeared should be displayed in the template so that all parties then know that this is or not a new listing. As against the practice of relaunching a failed auction as private treaty in priority placements.
Personally I think that REA and Domain are becoming more and more irrelevant as the dominant agencies are offering much smarter and much more aggressive online opportunities through intelligent database deliveries.
This week I monitored our home sales in 2007 to see that 23 per cent of these sales were actually to overseas expats and just two of these sales actually came from a property portal. The rest were all generated by our online business.
Today, homehound launched their new website http://www.homehound.com.au and for the first time I was impressed with what I saw it is very clean and simple with outstanding navigation functionality.
Property portals need to re-invent themselves as they are running on tired thought processes. I see new markets evolving and I would expect to see Australian Property Monitors playing an even stronger role with Domain in the services that they offer agents and consumers. They have just moved their offices from Darlinghurst to Pyrmont to join their parent – Fairfax Digital.
In recent weeks I have spent some considerable time looking at what APM have been achieving and this is a businesses going ahead in leaps and bounds. Many are now coming to the conclusion that for any hope of survival in the real estate online markets you need to do more than just display pretty photographs. Where prospective purchasers will be able to receive within seconds a comprehensive market analysis on comparable sales activity.
This is exactly what many are now saying as the re-defining moments of property portals. Agents and consumers will be getting a lot more bang for their bucks and about time.
Scott
Hi Robert,
I would really like to know why you are still advertising with REA and Domain?
You state that only 2 of your 2007 home sales came from portal sites.
If your own online business is generating all the revenue, why are you still paying the portal sites to advertise your listings?
I am very interested in trying to understand your position on this.
Elizabeth
Dear Robert,
Is this a misguided cash or contra for comment again?
Like those free products from sitting on the Domain discovery committee?
How is John Laws these days?
E
Sam
Just had a look at homehound, still a crummy effort by amateurs. Just amazing how these people can’t even COPY a good search engine. The lesson is don’t try to be original if you’re just not up to it.
Elizabeth
Good evening,
Sam, tell me what a good portal looks like, and what it has. You keep rubbishing everything out there, but how about some insight into what you would do if you had a few million dollars (to spend on a portal that is)
I am genuinely interested.
E
Sam
Elizabeth, all one has to do is replicate the REA search function, it’s been proven under to highest of traffic conditions so it is the way to go.
No problem with copyright as a search function is not something that is unique or can be registered as one’s own. Simple…………but do you think anyone has done it ? No, and despite me stating the obvious no one will.
Elizabeth
Dear Sam,
thank you.
I actaully like the new homehound to the old one, and prefer it to myhome. But it just feels a bit to technical with those maps which are too big for my screen.
But isn’t it interesting that both homehound and myhome, sites with a lot of money poured into them, have the franchisors involved. One site will make their agents pay, the other is a free site.
Makes me wonder what the franchisees think of all of this.
E
Sam
The franchisors are fairly clueless, they follow and do what they are told is good, usually over a long lunch. The fact is all preople want to do is find a place to buy or lease, and REA does it simply and accurately, my only gripe with REA has been their attitude and arrogance, thay rea infurriating and there’s no need for them to be like that.
Glenn
Portals in general will face an interesting time in the market over the next few years as Aggregators, Classified sites and Mapping mashups try and take their market share.
When you see what some of the leading sites around the world like http://www.trulia.com, http://www.neighboroo.com, http://www.housingmaps.com, http://www.hotpads.com and http://www.properazzi.com have done with Google Maps you can appreciate the pressure that will be applied here in our market soon.
If these type of companies get a foothold into the Australian market like I think they will, I think Robert will be proven to be 100% correct as none of them charge the agent. The agent can concentrate on his own website and aggregators and the like will serve him up visitors and enquiries directly back to their sites.
New innovations like Google’s Maplets allow users to view real estate listings from multiple sources at the same time without navigating away from the Google Maps page. View how maplets are going to work at http://maps.google.com/maps/mm?mapprev=1 and see who has already have maplets ready to roll out in the real estate
category here http://maps.google.com/ig/directory?synd=mpl&pid=mpl&num=24&q=real estate&btnG=SearchGoogleMapsContent
Then there is the new Street View which allows users to view ever property and the surrounding neighbourhood from street level. The public is just going to lap this up when all these companies start rolling this out. Check out street view here
http://maps.google.com/maps/mm?mapprev=1&ie=UTF8&om=0&layer=c&cbll=37.329652,-121.90905&cbp=1,89.3566445946308,0.50810832508598,0&ll=37.332853,-121.907837&spn=0.007678,0.013196&z=16
You can zoom in on properties, view full screen, rotate around and move up and down the streets. This is the future and unless our Australian portals evolve they will be left behind. I for one think they will evolve as I am sure they are not a bunch of idiots, their future sucess comes down to more of a case of when they will evolve and by how much.
Please note that at the time of posting these new Google Tools are only developers previews and they are not quite ready for release I dont think. The Google Australia team should be very proud of what they started with Google Maps.
The launch of the new version of Homehound is promising but nothing as yet to threaten realestate.com.au. Now if I had the budget to spend that PBL did recently I would have negotiated with Trulia for the Australian rights and brought something like this to the Australian market that would have threatened REA and Domain immediately.. Check this out..
http://www.trulia.com/property/31393629-1904-Se-1st-Ave-Fort-Lauderdale-FL-33316
Just look at the information they offer consumers and remember, this is not a portal, Trulia is an aggregator. Real estate search engines and aggregators help buyers find property by collecting (or aggregating) listings from multiple sources into a one location. They crawling, index and then organise and map listings for buyers. They are not trying to keep the enquiry and serve it up to you to justify a high monthly cost like a portal. If you click for more details on this property it sends you to the agents site (or in this case his MLS ‘s site). You enquire about the property directly to the agent, not to some go-between that keeps waving it in front of you to justify the money they take out of your pocket every month.
Myhome tried to play REA’s game in REA’s market place with shiny new ball and new shoes and thats it. No suprise that REA and Domain beat them down.. They should have brought a better game to the market that a bloated company like REA could not adjust so quickly for.
Unfortunatley they have spent too much money on this dog to change direction now so they have to get some return on their investment.
REA is the best we have right now and I currently believe that everybody should be with them but times are a changing… As Peter has pointed out, REA and domain know that to, why else would they be trying to get us to sign up to a 2 year contract. I hope they do evolve along with Domain but will not be surprised if they don’t.
snoop
APM ..Leaps and bounds?
Looked at their site Robert.
Whats changed?
Kind Regard
this information very nice.Place4U.co.uk Worldwide Property portal for buyers, private sellers, agents and developers with thousands of UK and Overseas properties.